A Conversation with Joel Grind of Toxic Holocaust

BK: I'm gonna jump right in man, congratulations on the release of Conjure & Command, it's excellent.

JG: Thank you man, I appreciate that.

I don't think I've seen one bad review for it since it came out in July, so that's really something considering how snarky the press can be sometimes.

 Yeah, tell me about it. It seems like you can't really please any of them.

One of the things that has kind of followed you around your whole career has been the tag of being a "throwback band" or a "revival band." I was wondering if you were tying to escape that tag, or if its just something you've embraced at this point?

It's a tag we've been trying to escape ever since we got into this, you know? I always felt that we kind of got unfairly lumped into that, because we came out before a lot of those bands that were like "retro thrash" or whatever, you know? We definitely were ahead of the curve a little bit on that because well, we were one of the last bands to get signed to a bigger label. I wouldn't say a major label, because it's an indie label, but a lot of people call it a major label for some reason. Relapse is an independent label. But we were one of the last bands to get signed because I held out until I got the right deal and until I felt that I needed it I was getting to the point where I was doing my own mail orders and I couldn't even focus on the music anymore because I was sitting there mailing packages and stuff, and that brought me to the realization that I needed to step it up and get some help. But yeah, I feel like we kind of got lumped in with that and to me, it never really felt that way. I never felt like I was trying to rip off the 80's bands. I'm definitely influenced by it, you know? But I'm trying to do my own thing, I'm trying to do something that doesn't really sound like any of those bands. It's not any particular one, there's a lot of bands that came out through that that are basically clones of those older bands, and I never wanted any part of that.

It seems like anyone wearing high tops became a "retro thrash" band all of a sudden. 

Yeah. It's kind of funny. The funny thing is we looked a lot different from those other bands too. You can definitely tell what we look like as opposed to those other bands. I didn't want to be a carbon copy of another band.

You're based out of Portland, Oregon right now. Were you born and raised up there?

No, I wasn't. Almost everybody I know in Portland isn't from Portland. It's funny. For some reason everybody moves to Portland. I moved here about 3 and a half years ago. I love it. I'm originally from the east coast, I'm from Maryland, so it's a big difference from the east coast, it's a big change, but it's good.

It's funny that you moved from somewhere like Maryland, where there a big metal and hardcore scene with bands like Pulling Teeth and Ruiner, but you don't think of Portland as a metal city. I mean, you labelmates Red Fang are from Portland, but is there a bigger metal scene up there than people think?

There's a lot of younger bands that are starting out that are really good, but Portland is known for being a very punk scene. The scene in Portland is very metal too, all the punk rockers support metal. They embrace metal and there's a good crossover scene. It's pretty cool here.  The music scene in general actually; a lot of bands come through here and it's a very active scene.

When I think of Portland I think of Death Cab and all those indie bands.

Yeah, I think the bands that got huge were the more indie stuff, but there's always been a great punk scene here, like Poison Ivy are probably the most well known punk band from here. They're pretty legendary and they pretty much fueled the punk scene here in the 80's.

So on the deluxe edition of Conjure & Command comes with a DVD of a live show, which was shot in London. Do you enjoy touring in Europe more than the States?

I don't enjoy one or the other more, I like them both for different reasons. It's always fun touring the states but we do it a lot so it's kind of a treat to go to Europe. Definitely the crowds in Europe are very, very die hard. For some reason metal over there, especially thrash music, has never died. Especially when you go to Germany, it's crazy how into they are over there. But the States are cool too, there's some pockets in the states that are just as good as when we play Europe. When we play Texas, and we hadn't played Florida in a while but we played Miami on this last tour and it was a crazy show.  So it's good, but I think the U.S. kind of goes up and down with how good it is. Eruope, it's always really good over there but the States are a little hit or miss. This last tour was really good so all I can say about the U.S. right now is it's great!

I read an interview recently where you were asked about the cover art of Conjure & Command. You said that you were going for more of an occult vibe. How involved are you wit the artwork?

Totally involved. I decide on the artist and I keep in touch with the artist, and we go back and forth with ideas. This one, we were bouncing ideas off each other the whole time. I picked this guy because I've seen some of the other stuff he's done. He's done, I don't know if you're familiar with them, but Insect Warfare, they're a grind band from Houston. I saw one of their records and it was really, really detailed and it kind of reminded me of Mad Marc Rude or something like that, so I was like "This would be perfect." I've actually known the guy for a while so it was a no brainer for him to do it. It came out great and it's very detailed. When you see it on vinyl too, it makes it totally worth it to get the vinyl, just to see the artwork bigger. It's really cool.

Are you a vinyl collector?

I am.  I have lots of records. I actually might send some of them out because I have so many and I have a lot of stuff that I've gotten through trade that just aren't really my cup of tea. Also if I move one more time I don't want to lose any of them!

So as a music collector, does it bum you out when people download Toxic Holocaust records for free?

You know, I kind of look at it is, I don't really have a problem with it if people are downloading it to check it out, because I understand that. People work hard for their money, and they don't want to blow it on records that suck. I've done that many, many times. I don't blame people for downloading to check it out, and if they like it, I mean, I would suggest buying it but I can't really say anything about it. It'd be cool if people bought it, and they want to support my band that's the way to do it, but it is what it is. Things change, the music industry changes. I just enjoy making music, and that's all that matters to me.

As long as you can stay on the road, right?

 Yeah, it's cool for that, because a lot of people hear things they normally wouldn't because you can get it for free, and hopefully some of those people come to shows.

I noticed that you're first week sales were actually pretty good. I was surprised that a band that sounds as harsh as Toxic Holocaust does can move as many CD's and vinyl as you do in a time where no one is buying music.

Yeah it's weird. It crazy compared to when Overdose of Death (TH's last album) came out, it's crazy how much worse the record industry has gotten in terms of record sales. It's like down 40% or something. Since Overdose came out, it's down like 40% over the whole scope of the record industry. That's a big blow, man. Especially for smaller labels. That's a pretty big cut.

I know when I Googled your record the other day looking for more questions to ask you one of the top 10 results for Conjure and Command was a Mediafire link to download the whole album for free, right there on the front page.

Yup. The thing is though, I remember growing up and waiting for a record to come out, and when it came out, I would learn every lyric on it. I would learn every riff and know everything about the artwork. Now I think if you're getting it for free, you get 15 albums a day and you don't really listen to any of them. They're just throwaway.

And the artwork is just a thumbnail on your iPod. I feel like you're not getting the full experience if you just download it and put it on shuffle. I saw a really good twitter post from Randy from Lamb of God the other day talking about the death of sequencing. Does it matter what order the songs are in on your record anymore? It's too and that experience is going by the wayside.

Agreed.

I love asking this question because you get so many cool answers from it. As far as your influences growing up, is there a band that people would be surprised to hear that Joel Grind was into when he was in High School?

Believe it or not, and I think you'll be shocked to hear this, but I was really into Joy Divison's Unknown Pleasures.

Really?

I still really like that record a lot. I remember being in high school and really enjoying it. It was a lot different from I was listening to at the time. Its really dark sounding and its just cool. I like it. It's very haunting.

Did you ever go a step further and jump on the Morrissey train?

Haha no, I never went that far. I do like some New Order stuff. But I never got into Morrissey.

That's interesting, That'll be the headline on MetalSucks tomorrow.

Cool, so everyone can slam me on the message board.

What an asshole.

Haha yeah.

I really appreciate talking to you man, good luck and take care.

Thanks for the interview dude, take care. See you.